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Thursday, October 28, 2010

Osias Segura's questions on emerging church in Latin America

Here is my attempt to quickly answer some of Osias Segura's questions for his research.



Osias Segura wrote:



"Saludos!! Soy profesor adjunto en el Seminario Fuller (www.fuller.edu), y me han solicitado escribir un capitulo para un libro sobre iglesias emergentes en America Latina. Esto se publicara en un libro en Ingles, en EE.UU. No hay nada escrito sobre el tema en ingles (de forma academica), y hay mucho desconocimiento sobre lo que esta sucediendo en America Latina. Me encantaria conocer sus experiencias sobre el tema, y para ello tengo las siguientes preguntas:

Iglesias emergentes
  1. ¿Has escuchado de las iglesias emergentes?
  • ¿Qué has escuchado que “iglesia emergente” significa?
  • ¿Cómo, cuándo,  y dónde escuchaste por primera vez de iglesias emergentes?
  • ¿Crees que existan iglesias emergentes en América Latina?
  • ¿Crees que hagan falta? ¿Si crees que no hacen falta, qué te preocupa de ellas?
  • ¿Formas parte de una iglesia emergente?
  • ¿Si formas parte de una, en su perspectiva que caracteriza una iglesia emergente?
  • ¿Sos parte de alguna red o compañerismo  de iglesias emergentes?
  • ¿Desde hace cuanto tiempo funciona esa red, y cuantas iglesias forman parte de esa red?
Nuevos modelos de hacer y ser iglesia
  1. ¿En cuanto a la práctica de la justicia, y el quehacer evangelistico y discipulador, qué caracteriza, según su experiencia eclesial, lo que haces para servir a poblaciones posmodernas?
  2. ¿Crees que hay un nuevo despertar en el surgimiento de nuevos modelos de iglesias? ¿Cómo son estas “nuevas” iglesias, qué  las caracteriza?
  • -Cuéntame un poco: ¿Cómo se definen a sí mismo? ¿Como hicieron esa transición y de que transfondo denominacional venían? ¿Cómo se consideran ahora? ¿De donde tomaron esas ideas para hacer ese cambio? ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la gente en la iglesia?
  1. ¿Has escuchado de grupos “neomonasticos” en América Latina?
  • -Cuéntame un poco: ¿Cómo se definen a sí mismo? ¿Como hicieron esa transición y de que transfondo denominacional venían? ¿Cómo se consideran ahora? ¿De donde tomaron esas ideas para hacer ese cambio? ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la gente en la iglesia? ¿Te consideras parte de una denominación? ¿De qué tipo? ¿Cómo se considera la gente asiste a su iglesia?
El culto y el quehacer de la misión de la iglesia
  1. ¿Qué aspectos creativos has incorporado en ministerios, y en los cultos de la iglesia? ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la iglesia local ante estos cambios? ¿Surgieron estos cambios desde la iglesia local, o vino de algún líder de afuera?
  2. ¿Qué significa ser espiritual? ¿Cómo entiendes la separación entre lo secular y lo sagrado? ¿Cómo unes lo secular y lo sagrado? ¿Cómo es que la gente la congregación entiende estos aspectos?
  3. ¿Cómo se distribuye el poder en la iglesia? ¿Quién manda en su iglesia? ¿Has escuchado de organizaciones planas? ¿Han puesto en práctica algo relacionado al “liderazgo compartido”? Comparte alguna experiencia. ¿Han tenido experiencias en la distribución de poder? ¿Cómo ha sido la transición? ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la gente de la iglesia?

Pueden contestar a estas preguntas de forma concisa (si, no) y en un solo escrito (no necesariamente responder pregunta por pregunta).
"

So, let me try to answer some of these questions.


Iglesias emergentes
  1. ¿Has escuchado de las iglesias emergentes?
  • ¿Qué has escuchado que “iglesia emergente” significa?
I understand that the question refers to what I hear and not to what I personally heard. I heard a couple of things:
-  "emerging church" is a new model of church that is trying to adapt its message to the younger generations. Most people will go on to say that in doing so, "the emerging church" is compromising "the Gospel" by conceding too much of it to culture. 
- "emerging church" is a new liberal movement in Latin America.
- "emerging church" is just a new fashion that really shouldn't exist, because the church needs to be "biblical", nothing more nothing less. "We shouldn't have any labels".
  • ¿Cómo, cuándo,  y dónde escuchaste por primera vez de iglesias emergentes?
The first time I heard about emerging churches was around 2005. I was in Canada and heard from my Baptist pastor that we were in a "different context", a different contemporaneity, what some people called, in his words 'post-modernity'. I then found out about Emergent Village and read the book "Emerging Churches" by Bolger.
  • ¿Crees que existan iglesias emergentes en América Latina?
So, I don't know any, but it may exist. I think that the closest thing to an "emerging church" in Latin America would be CEBs - Comunidades Eclesiais de Base. I have visited many people and 'networks' in Brazil. It seems that there are some circles of (middle class) friends that feel and think that they are  "out of church" - because of their diverse theological views, or emphasis on practice or with living with the poor or "unusual" moral views. But these circles or 'networks' still have not developed a better sense of 'autonomy' nor have they any term or label strong enough to have a name or identity.
I have started a 'movement' called Conversa Sem Nome / Conversación Sin Nombre (Nameless Conversation). It is a distributed and federated attempt to connect different conversations between heterogeneous peers (people and whole networks). It doesn't even pretend to be about church or religion in fact. And it doesn't pretend to impose an identity on whoever 'joins' the conversation. It is an attempt to document and expose interesting conversations. 
  • ¿Crees que hagan falta? ¿Si crees que no hacen falta, qué te preocupa de ellas?
Yes, I think we miss them. I think that "emerging churches" will present the best ways for people in my country to express their spirituality and to converse with culture in the long run. But I think these "churches" must be very diverse in all kind of criteria, if they are to 'be relevant'.
I already lived in the North for decades and in the South for decades too. I would call it the "yes we can" of the North versus the "no we cannot" of the South (hopefully not as a prejudice, but as a historical footnote). The various demonstrations of abusive power by authorities in the South conditioned people to have a pessimist view of hopeful proposals, such as 'the emerging church'. So in the South people are suspicious of the new thinking 'who is behind this', 'how is someone to make money from this', 'what do they want from me' and so on. I feel that in the North people commit to ideals and ideas more readily. 
  • ¿Formas parte de una iglesia emergente?
No, I don't . But I would like to. While I'm in Brazil, I'm working with a community specifically with plans so that they might be an 'emerging church' in the future. I would call them a CEB. I am part of la Conversación Sin Nombre, however. ( See www.conversasemnome.com .) Many friends I talked to "joined" the conversations. Others I spoke to liked the idea and wanted to join, but haven't done so 'formally' yet (perhaps because they don't have a Facebook account). But the way la Conversación Sin Nombre is, they may already be in the conversation and may not even realise.
  • ¿Si formas parte de una, en su perspectiva que caracteriza una iglesia emergente?
I think there should not be one characteristic. I would start with what Bolger wrote and modify it. I think that the main characteristics would be:
- Identification with Jesus. And this reading of Jesus would find a radical, contesting figure, as depicted by the liberation theologias.
- Transformation of the secular realm: There will be a new understanding of 'culture' that will change theology itself and, most importantly, praxis (and, for  churches coming from the 'inside stream', ecclesiology and liturgy) . Here a 'revisionist' theology, which is constantly revising itself, will help.
- Living in community: these communities must be recognized by their strong communal practice and view. Geographical and virtual networks. And these communities, in the context of Latin America, must include people with some key differences: income level (very important), theological views, and reconfigured family (because of reconfigured moral views), among others.

And about the derived characteristics:
- Receiving "the other": these communities must have a refined view of "the other". Here "the other" is mostly the suffering one: the landless, the miserable, the ones with no shelter, LGBTQs, mentally disabled, children, women, those with diverse political views, AND those with diverse theological views. This implies a greater collaboration and even integration with African and native religions. And for urban settings, a greater collaboration with atheists. 
- Serving with generosity: beyond assisting the poor, these communities must engage with the poor in their causes. This implies in close relationship with social movements: landless workers movements, shelterless movements, unions, women rights, LGBTQ activism, pacifists, etc.
- Participating as producers: here the key in the Latin American context is the new relationship with culture. Latin American communities must rediscover culture (including folklore). A political/historical critique may be necessary to interpret the forms of cultural oppression and alienation. These communities must learn to appreciate and leverage culture in its popular sources. Only after the communities may  shape their  language and symbols in dialog with culture. 
- Leading as body: here the political questions of 'body' and 'community' must come to the forefront. Who has power? What legitimates it? How can 'emerging churches' create new forms of arrangements? How can these group topologies spawn across sacred/secular boundaries and reconfigure (local) politics?
Having said all that, these characteristics give room for very diverse kinds of "churches", some of which may not even call themselves "churches". (For instance, many of these communities may be 'neo-neo-pentecostals')
  • ¿Sos parte de alguna red o compañerismo  de iglesias emergentes?
No. But I'm part of other networks,which are not "emerging churches":
- Conversa Sem Nome | Conversación Sin Nombre
- Evangelicals For Justice (Evangélicos Pela Justiça): a small group of evangelicals interested in socio-political matters.
- I have been befriending a very poor community in  a neighbourhood of 70 families (see http://gustavofrederico.blogspot.com/search/label/Monjolo ), helping it in every aspect of their lives and I hope it will become a CEB and an emerging church in the future.
  • ¿Desde hace cuanto tiempo funciona esa red, y cuantas iglesias forman parte de esa red?
Not applicable.

Nuevos modelos de hacer y ser iglesia
  1. ¿En cuanto a la práctica de la justicia, y el quehacer evangelistico y discipulador, qué caracteriza, según su experiencia eclesial, lo que haces para servir a poblaciones posmodernas?
Here in Latin America, the term "postmodernity" deserves some care. In one sense "postmodernity" in the South refers to a compound epoch , where communities live with pre-modern, modern and postmodern processes at the same time (interpreting "postmodernity" in an economical, technological and cultural way). So the characteristics of my actions could be listed as:
- active participation in politics. Here political actions derive from ethics. These political actions are not a means to propagate a certain religious view. Going beyond binaries of modernity should help the political dialog and cooperation, and revise criteria for political assessments.
- constant revision of theology, which produces dialogue (with diverse groups, including Christians and non-christians). This relates to 'evangelism'. 'Evangelism' has its proselitism highly diluted for me. The only characteristic of 'reproduction' left in it is the sense that "this thing" is worth living for and, therefore, worth sharing/living out with others.
- The simple fact of poor  'hanging out' with rich or middle class is very important.
  1. ¿Crees que hay un nuevo despertar en el surgimiento de nuevos modelos de iglesias?  - YES - ¿Cómo son estas “nuevas” iglesias, qué  las caracteriza?
I already wrote about it above. But here the question is more general. Here we are speaking about 'new churches' and not 'emerging churches'. There is an important article in the Brazilian press in a magazine called "Época" ("A nova reforma protestante") which speaks about these 'new churches' in a precise and accurate way. 'new churches' in new models will likely be a large number of churches in the near future in Latin America. But I suspect there will be fewer 'emerging churches' and the growth of 'emerging churches' will be slower.
The 'new churches' will be characterized by new liturgy (with more technology, more interactive stuff, with more lights and glamour) , a greater emphasis on distributed topologies (pastor-less churches, etc). Some of these 'new churches' will have an ambiguous relationship with culture, featuring certain elements of the secular (such as secular music). Most of these 'new churches' will be the result of non-disruptive changes to existing churches.
  • -Cuéntame un poco: ¿Cómo se definen a sí mismo? I don't like being simplistic and reductionist. I would prefer to converse with who is making the question. But since this is part of a research, I would call myself an emerging liberationist. 
  • ¿Como hicieron esa transición y de que transfondo denominacional venían? I grew up as a traditional Baptist. I then flirted with the 'renewal movement' in the late 80s and 90s. I was hoping that this movement would bring a new understanding of 'community' and I liked its proposal of 'breaking with unreasonable tradition'. I  soon realised that their proposal changed the wrapping but not the contents. I lived 11 years in Canada. However, I wouldn't say that this was a significant cause of my current views. While in Canada I barely had any contact with anyone who call him/herself "emergent" or "emerging".  I'm living back in Brazil temporarily and will return to Canada at the end of the year.  
  • ¿Cómo se consideran ahora? ¿De donde tomaron esas ideas para hacer ese cambio? I read a lot. In English, Portuguese and Spanish. My background is in Computer Science. I believe the Social Sciences are very important in the shaping of these theological discussions. So I began to speak with people from the Social Sciences.
  • ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la gente en la iglesia? I think that the "emerging" ideas in Latin America have some things that are palatable and others that are not to the traditional churches. In my case, I didn't find appropriate to insist in changes or new views because I'm here in Brazil only for 18 months. And I think that a 'longer path' of laying foundations by writing, speaking to people, engaging in social movements, such as landless workers, shalterless urban workers, social disobedience, etc, living out in new communities (that is, exploring new praxis) is a better way. 
  1. ¿Has escuchado de grupos “neomonasticos” en América Latina?  Yes. I have a friend of mine. He is a Catholic. A Catholic Biblical scholar, actually. He identifies himself with Liberation Theology (even though  he is a revisionist of it). He lives in a neomonastic community. The other community I know - Monjolo - has certain aspects of a neo-monastic community: they share money/resources, they refer to themselves as a community in geographical terms, 99% of them is either catholic or evangelical ( "evangélico") but they don't yet call themselves "neomonastics". Even because it is a rather big community, of around 70 families.
  • -Cuéntame un poco: ¿Cómo se definen a sí mismo? ¿Como hicieron esa transición y de que transfondo denominacional venían? ¿Cómo se consideran ahora? ¿De donde tomaron esas ideas para hacer ese cambio? ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la gente en la iglesia? ¿Te consideras parte de una denominación? ¿De qué tipo? ¿Cómo se considera la gente asiste a su iglesia?
El culto y el quehacer de la misión de la iglesia
  1. ¿Qué aspectos creativos has incorporado en ministerios, y en los cultos de la iglesia? I had the opportunity of speaking to the local pastor. I told him that I didn't join the other Presbyterian church because it is very 'formal'. For instance, I didn't like the lack of participation of women in leadership  there. And I didn't like the fact that the pastors wear suit and tie. Also, in "my" local church (I go there once in a while. I'm not very active nor assiduous at all) I have promoted the singing of new music that speaks more about social justice. This church is really an exception in Brazil: it must be one of the few that has an interesting concept against divides between secular and sacred. It still has, however, a great difficulty in changing its liturgy. They have created a 'neutral/ 3rd place' for arts and culture (Saturdays), but the church is still slow in debating or accepting the deeper theological implications of this and still isn't very keen on changing the Sunday liturgy. I also spoke to the pastor about my difficulty with women not being formally in leadership. He shares my frustration, but at the same time, I don't see him doing anything about it in the local church. I have to say, though ,that I proposed that the church participate in the National Referendum for the Limit of Land Ownership. This is sponsored by social movements, some of which catholics involved with the landless rural workers movement (MST), and the church, not without debate, accepted participating in it. But the leadership was very much afraid of 'taking on' a political subject. The leadership often cited throughout the process they wanted to be neutral on the Referendum. The pastors were more in favour of taking a position in the Referendum, however, in favour of a 'YES' vote for the limit.

  1. ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la iglesia local ante estos cambios? I'm frustrated that even these simple suggestions I mention above are moving fast enough. Even my suggestions of music with different lyrics I made months ago wasn't yet taken, despite promises to do so. 
  2.  ¿Surgieron estos cambios desde la iglesia local, o vino de algún líder de afuera?  
  3. ¿Qué significa ser espiritual? ¿Cómo entiendes la separación entre lo secular y lo sagrado? ¿Cómo unes lo secular y lo sagrado? These are important and complicated questions. I think there should be no divide in principle with the sacred and the profane.I think that the local church must be a place where everyone is welcome. I think there is space for a local faith community to express their spirituality, and I think that this moment may have some language , some 'spiritual language' that is not common outside the communitiy. I still think that this language must be as close as possible to culture. This language must derive, in fact, from (what we call secular) culture.  ¿Cómo es que la gente la congregación entiende estos aspectos? I think people in general in the congregation may have some suspicion of it, but they don't grasp it and when they realise the extent of the possibilities they would be scarred and against it. I would like to propose 'popular liturgies' for Monjolo - the poor community. I would need to call it something else other than 'church'. And even son, if I mix the popular/folkloric elements as I'm thinking, they may still be scandalized. But I don't know. I may be surprised.
  4. ¿Cómo se distribuye el poder en la iglesia? ¿Quién manda en su iglesia?  It is not any different than the standard Presbyterian church in Brazil. There is the Coucil and the main pastor. Power is somewhat distributed, but the pastor still has a heavy weight on the decisions.
  5. ¿Has escuchado de organizaciones planas? ¿Han puesto en práctica algo relacionado al “liderazgo compartido”? Comparte alguna experiencia. ¿Han tenido experiencias en la distribución de poder? ¿Cómo ha sido la transición? ¿Cómo ha sido la reacción de la gente de la iglesia?
It is not much applicable, because I didn't actively participate in the local presbyterian church. 

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